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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Glad to hear she’s running ok now.


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Thanks ajl, all running well now, apart from a new issue.

Before I brought it back from the farmyard, after having developed the recent issue, I'd noticed that the clutch would slip, every now and again. I have a very steep hill to climb, out of the river valley, and sometimes, with a loaded up trailer, it would struggle to climb the hill without slipping. This was resolved by selecting a low range, which I always did, once the issue had been experienced. This having been said, I thought I would adjust the clutch, if ever I had it home, and I have now done this. I followed the instructions, and if I recall correctly, those were, remove the cover, loosen the lock nut, screw it in until it seats, back it off 1/8th of a turn, tighten the lock nut and then replace the cover.

All had seemed well, since I first did this a few weeks ago, but yesterday, and now today, after having fully rebuilt it, I've noticed that it is slipping again. It only seemed to slip when cold and as I changed gear at higher revs. After running a while it would seemingly go away completely, though I have no hills to really test it.

Thinking that I may need to check the adjustment again, or even have to change some clutch parts, I've been doing a little reading in this area, and I've discovered something new, of which I was previously ignorant. My manual says, 10W-40 SF or SG oil, and I didn't think much of this, other than to replicate these numbers, and make sure the rating was higher that the minimum spec listed, which virtually all current oils will be, with it being a 16 or 17 year old quad, so I just looked at the back, and the spec I got was several letters beyond the minimum required oil spec, at SL. What I've now discovered though is that I am better with ATV or bike oil, specifically rated for wet clutches, and wondered if this might explain my clutch problem.

Is it worth me changing my oil, yet again, but now for a type rated as JASO MA for wet clutches? Could my normal car oil explain the issue I'm currently experiencing with my clutch? By the way, I'm currently using ordinary Castrol GTX, 10W-40. As a matter of interest, it seems to have worsened since I changed to this oil relatively recently. Immediately after I adjusted the clutch, it was fine, if a little sharp, but having changed to this oil I have this issue now.

Is it easy to find this type of oil. What do you guys all use?

As always, any help is very much appreciated, and sorry to be so full of clueless questions.

EDIT: Would this be okay, for example. Oil.
 

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Normal automotive oil doesn’t have the additives motorcycle oil does. Plus you are correct that motorcycle oil is specifically designed for the wet clutch system in your quad. If you’ve been using conventional 10W40 oil for quite a while you’ve probably developed premature clutch wear. This probably explains why the clutch continues to slip even after adjusting it. So I doubt changing the oil then adjusting the clutch will help, but you can always try if ya want. As for oil, as long as it’s JASO-MA approved and the proper viscosity your ok. I’ve always used Suzuki brand oil/filters on my 300 KQ and never had an issue. But you can use other brands as long as they are the proper weight and properly approved for atv’s.


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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Thanks ajl. I have no idea what was in it before, so I can't really comment about the premature clutch wear, but what I can say is that I never let it slip a lot. Since all the time this year, that it has been back at the farm, around 90 miles total, and since I've had it home again, maybe 30 miles, I've not allowed it to slip for more than a second at a time, and probably less than twenty times total. Every time it does it I back off the throttle, which seems to allow it to engage again, or I just stop, and engage a lower range, so I don't think I've added significantly to any clutch wear. For example today, I noticed it a couple of times, and I reacted accordingly. Thereafter it just got better, for some unknown reason, and disappeared. I'll check tomorrow for adjustment.

Again, shows what I know, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as Suzuki oil. The oil I linked is the correct grade, as specified in the manual, and additionally has the JASO-MA rating. It also says it complies with JASO-MA2, so I assume it will be good, but I'll look for Suzuki oil now too.

Oh well, you live and learn.

Thanks

Sutty
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Mhhh, can't seem to find Suzuki Ecstar oil in the UK, seems odd. Some ebay options, but not sure I trust those to necessarily be genuine. I think I'll go for the one I linked, and see what happens, unless someone has other thoughts for someone in the UK.

Is there any tip for making sure I get sufficient of the old oil out? Do I need to change the filter, or just remove it, so as to drain that section too, or is even that unnecessary? It is a new OEM filter, just used for the 90 and 30 miles total. I changed it after the initial repair, and using the first oil change as a sort of running in oil, in case there were some bits of rust, or similar, that broke free during the time when I was manually freeing it up and then running it for the first few miles.

Thanks again.
 

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You should change the oil filter if you’re changing the oil. Unless you’re flushing the oil 2-3 times then you can change it on the final flush. And use low range whenever you’re towing or hauling something heavy. Easier on you’re clutch, plus it’s engaged more closely when in low. And the Suzuki oil I pick up through any local Suzuki dealer. You may not have access to it in the UK so you may have to find an alternative.


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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Thanks. Okay, I'll order a new filter too. I wasn't thinking of flushing it two or three times, just changing it. It has now been changed several times since I got it going again. Granted, each time, including the last time too, for the wrong type, but it should at least be clean.

Is it essential to flush it? If I let it drain out for a few hours, and gently turn it over by hand a couple of times, to move things around a little, and have also changed the oil filter, will there be a lot left? I could also raise the front wheels a little, if that helps any? Is there anything else I can remove to get more out?

If I get 4 litres, at £35, flushing it several times is expensive, and if not overly helpful, I'd rather not. I could put the small amount of spare through first, just to help give it a little flush, at the bottom, after it has stood draining for a good while, unless you think it is important from the point of view literally getting all of the old oil out? That last oil, albeit the wrong type, is only about 30 miles or so old now.
 

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Usually when a clutch starts slipping....It only gets worse.....you may get lucky and get some more millage out of it but I doubt very much if it will last long. The main problem with automotive oils in a wet clutch is that auto oils have ANTI Friction additives in them which is just the opposite of what a wet clutch needs it literally helps the clutch to slip and causes excessive wear. So you can see the problem. You may get lucky....
 

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You don’t have to flush it 2-3 times unless you’ve had fuel in the oil. In which case you should flush it to get rid of any access fuel that’s mixed into the crankcase. Which is not your case. So just doing an oil change with filter is ok. 4 litres is what you’ll need roughly, actually around 3.5 quarts to be exact. Well that’s what I need for my 300 anyway. And some oil will come out the filter housing, so make sure you put an oil pan underneath to catch any oil. And on the inside of the oil filter cover there is a large o-ring, make sure you don’t damage it and that it’s seated correctly when reinstalling the cover. And there is one smaller o-ring behind the filter. Make sure it’s also seated correctly and not damaged. In most cases the small one stays in place.

And I would tend to agree with TC, your clutch will probably get worse over time. So you’ll have to keep a close eye on it.


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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Thanks guys, I appreciate the tips. I will keep a close eye on it, especially if the oil change seems to resolve the problem. If it doesn't make any difference, I guess it's end of life on the clutch, and I'm sure I will be back with regard to getting advice regarding changing out the appropriate clutch parts. I'll search for some links now, just to try and be ahead of the game. If I remember rightly, it's got 5600 miles on the clock. What's a typical, or average lifespan for a clutch?

According to my manual, it's 3.5 litres and 3.6 litres with filter change, which stacks up with my previous experience, sadly with the wrong type of oil, oh dear. The last filter I got came with new seals, but the one I now have on order doesn't, so I'll be sure to treat them with care on removal. At least they are nearly new now anyway.

Oh, and speaking of fuel in the oil, I've treated myself to a vacuum petcock valve, since I'm sure to eventually leave it with the fuel switched on, and since any given break between fishing trips could be extended, I didn't dare risk leaving it on. There is a clamped off line from my carb, so I'm assuming that's what it's for. I know some people go the other way for simplicity and reliability, but I know for sure I will forget at some point, so I think the vacuum type one is the best choice for me. I already just fitted a new non vacuum one, but, already, even whilst it's been at home, I've forgotten a few times to turn it off, and had to nip back into the garage to do so. If it were up at the farm, this would present me with a real problem.

Best regards

Sutty
 

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Clutch life span really depends on how the quad has been ridden and how hard. Wrong oil doesn’t help either, lol. For example: 5600 miles = 9012 kilometres roughly. My 300 has 13,450 kilometres, (8357 miles) on it and I’ve never adjusted the clutch. So proper maintenance and how your quad has lived it’s life makes a huge difference.

As for the vacuum petcock, most people don’t like them cause of their known issues. However, when I replaced mine I did so with the same OEM fuel petcock I had knowing over time I’ll probably develop the same issue I had before. But OEM is the way I go, plus the simplicity of the vacuum one is what I wanted. Like you I didn’t want to forget about leaving it in the off/on position all the time

As for the o-rings, I’ve never really replaced mine. I just reuse them, as long as they are in good shape and have no cuts or nicks in them. Will probably change them next time though since I haven’t done so in several years.


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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Thanks for the clutch life info, and the further tips. Having done a little reading with regard to the clutch, I've discovered that there are two. A centrifugal clutch, and a manual clutch, operated by the gear select lever. Am I right in thinking, that since I have no trouble setting off, and the slipping occurs when I change gear, particularly the higher gears, that the likely issue is the manual clutch, linked to the gear select? I'm thinking this, because it seems logical at these higher engine speeds that the centrifugal clutch will remain engaged, but the manual clutch has to disengage and reengage, which is where it seems to slip. Backing off for a short time, a blip, allows it to engage.

In a description I read somewhere, but have lost the reference now, I thought I read that one of the clutch types in these machines hardly ever fails. Which one is the more reliable of the two, if true at all? I ask, because when I get to change the oil, if the more reliable one is the manual one, then maybe I have more chance of getting away with it, if my diagnosis of which one is currently misbehaving is correct. Maybe that one is more prone to the wrong oil type of slippage too?

Just trying to cheer myself up, because I'm not sure I'm up to changing either of those clutches. If I need to, and attempt it, I could do with a good guide with pictures, but I can't seem to find that. Anyway, not too important yet, just some idle thoughts whilst waiting for the oil to turn up.
 

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The manual clutch is more prone to premature wear in most cases
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Oh well, I'll just have to hope, assuming I got it right that this is the one that is slipping, based on the observed behaviour. Thanks again for the info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Just a quick update as to how things are going. I changed the oil, and with all the other little jobs now done, it's running absolutely brilliantly. I don't know if it was all the other little jobs that I did, or the oil, but I swear it just sounds much nicer now, since I've run it with the proper oil in it. Most likely in my mind, but either way it is running like a champ. Plus, the oil change has got rid of the clutch slip issue. I hoped I hadn't added much to the wear, because I never let it slip for long, and it hadn't done it often, and putting the right sort of oil in has cleared the issue right up. I guess I did get lucky.

Annoyingly, I'm still waiting for the new vacuum petcock to arrive, so I can't put it all back together yet. Well, I could, but it just makes getting your hand in to work in that area a little harder, so I'll wait for it to arrive. As soon as it does, and it's all back together, I'll take it back up to the cabin.

Bought a pair of folding ramps from Germany, for only £45, carriage paid, and they are just perfect for my trailer, making loading it a simple one man job now. Previously it had been a two man job, with both of us struggling to lift it in.

Lastly, to protect the passengers on the trailer from being splashed with mud, I got a roll of rubber sheet, used for snow plough blades, and cut out two new mud flaps, and they seem to do the job nicely. I guess I won't know for sure until I try it out with passengers, but here is how they look, compared to one of the originals on the right, in front of the new one.





Cheers

Sutty
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Vacuum petcock finally arrived, but annoyingly was broken. The vacuum nipple had been snapped off, or nearly, right at the body. As soon as I touched it, it dropped off. It was packed in only a plastic bag and had obviously taken a whack in transit. I've e-mailed for support, but heard nothing. I took a small steel tube, that fitted the inside dimension of the diecast aluminium tube almost perfectly, used some strong epoxy, and glued it all up. It seems to be a very sound repair, and will no doubt hold, but it's frustrating to have had to resort to this, and of course the internal tube size is now smaller, but it doesn't seem to have stopped it functioning. Couldn't repair with an outside tube, because on the body side there was no outside tube to fit over. Used a very strong slow set epoxy, so that I had plenty time to position it perfectly, before leaving it to set hard. Positioning was helped greatly by the tight fitting thin walled steel tube inside. There was at least a 10mm section in each half, so I'm sure it's good. I used an epoxy that mentioned it was oil and fuel safe, but that shouldn't matter too much anyway. If I have fuel on that side of the system then I have a problem anyway, just as I did with the fuel pump.

I've also made sure that the vacuum line doesn't put strain on it, by being very careful in the method I have used to position it and clamp the line. Probably not required, to have been so careful with it, but probably better to do that anyway, I suppose. Tested it, by filling the tank, and then just sucking gently on the line, and fuel rushed out, which then stopped when I stopped sucking. Real world running test was also successful, and I could see the fuel pulsing into my clear sided filter. Won't know if it continues to shut off after use of course, but why wouldn't it. Also tested the Pri option, which just allowed fuel to flow, regardless of the low pressure side's status.

If they ever respond, and send me a replacement in a few weeks, without requiring return, I can keep the new one as a spare, when it finally gets here. If they tell me I have to send it back to China, before replacing, I'll tell them where to go.

Got everything back together now and ready for redeployment. Here she is, ready to go:



I guess that's it for now. Thanks again to all who contributed to help me sort the issues, and to the site in general for all the tips and tricks picked up.

Best regards

Sutty
 

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Good job....good to see you got it up and going
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Sorry to dig up my old thread, but I need to ask a question. My quad has been running perfectly well, ever since this work was completed, as listed in this thread, and it still is, but the tyres are literally dying of old age. I think they are original, but even if not, they have got to be twenty years old. The tread isn't worn out, but they are almost literally disintegrating, so I have had to order new. They are on the way, but for many years it has been running with tubes, and so I will need new valve stems for the wheels with the new tyres being tubeless. I looked at the manual, but I couldn't find reference to the spec. Are these all the same, like I can find on Amazon, such as TR412 as linked below?


Also, is there a good thread on the site with regard to DIY bead breaking and tyre fitting, or am I better taking them to the professionals?
 

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Yes, those valve stems should be fine. I'm pretty sure almost all valve stems are the standard, same size and should fit just about any rim. As far as breaking the bead ..... best to use a bead breaker machine of some sort. I've seen you tube vids showing guys using a wood plank across the tire, up to the rim and driving a vehicle on it, but that seems a little ******* to me ... but I'm not saying it wouldn't work. If you've never de-mounted and mounted tires bigger than a bicycle tire before, you may want to take it to someone. Without the proper equipment, it can be a real bear.
 

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Wondered why that word was sensored? I never knew anyone considered that word offensive. We use it all the time around these parts. Just Sayin... It's the perfect adjective for that wood plank tire thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Thanks for your reply. I'll get the same type then, but I found a better set which included a pulling tool, for not much more, and can still be here tomorrow, so I'll order that. I've been watching videos, and I'm not sure I'm up to it. Being a 'real bear', looks just about right to me, but I might give it a go. Saw a fairly clever one, and safer looking to me than rolling over it, lol, using a hydraulic jack. I'm sure I can fashion something with mine, but even having broken the bead, it doesn't seem that easy, either to get them off, or the new ones on. I doubt I'll try too hard, before resorting to the tyre place, just down the road.

Cheers for confirming the valve type.
 
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