[sutty]

Hi Guys

New member here, so hopefully I'm in the right place to post this question. I have literally inherited a Suzuki Quadrunner 250. It has model number AJ50A and I think is a year 2000 model, and I potentially need much advice.

The full VIN if it helps anyone to help me is JSAAJ50A912102842.

Since the passing of my father the quad has been unused for at least the past 10 years, and on collection of it, I discovered after lifting the seat, a note that someone had written, "Engine seized. Filled with light oil. If repaired be sure to change oil." So who knows when it actually seized.

I now have it at home in my garage, and I want to know if there is anything I can do to get the thing running. If it is seized, which I expect it is, I'd like to try and get it freed up. So far I have started to remove the plastic bodywork, so as to gain easier access to the areas I may need. Much more to do in that regard, but I'm making progress.

I can't hand pull it, or turn it over by pushing it in gear, and have just a short while ago removed the spark plug and put some WD40 in the cylinder head. Not sure if that was a good idea or not, but it's done now. Will leave that overnight and see if I can move things in the morning. I put the plug back in to keep it in there, but will remove it again tomorrow to see what has happened.

Is there any chance that it may go again with just some relatively simple small engine tricks that you may be able to teach me, or is it more likely that it will need something far more drastic. If it does need something far more drastic, is that something that you guys could help me with too?

I have very limited knowledge of small engines. The most I have done in the past is to change and set the points on a Kholer K321, change the condenser, changed the carb, and set the valve seat clearance. Tappets, I think that was called. 40 years old and runs like a charm now.

I suspect the Kholer is about as simple as it gets though, and this new quadrunner, well new to me, looks much more involved at first glance over. I'm okay from a mechanical point of view, and have a reasonable selection of tools, but honestly, even remembering where everything goes looks like it will be a major challenge, even with a lot of photographs, which I would take. In fact I've already taken quite a lot, just to help remember the body work items removed so far. I'm retired, so I should have a lot of time to try things out, but I've never tried anything like this before.

Anyway, I looked forward to any advice you guys may have for me.

Thanks for your time.

Best regards

Sutty

 

[Mapyang]

Well it might be less expensive to find a cheap running parts quad and just replace the engine. You need to know this the engine /transmission /rear differential are all in one case, so the engine might not be seized.
1) the electric starter might be stuck.
2) it could be stuck in gear.

 

[sutty]

Thanks for your thoughts Mapyang. Probably a good idea to find a donor quad, but I do like to persist with trying to fix things. If I can't fix it, I will probably buy a medium priced unit in good working order, and sell this one cheap for others to use for spares, or whatever they choose.

As it stands, there has been some progress. I have managed to free the engine. It was stuck fairly tight, but by removing the recoil starter and placing a pry bar on the castle shaped ring inside, I was able to get it to move by just a gentle tap with a rubber mallet. I kept adding penetrating oil, and worked it around and around, using the prying bar until eventually I could push forward it in top gear, and the castle would spin, as opposed to just the wheels being locked, as they were at first. I've pushed it for about 20m backwards then forwards, and it has freed up considerably to the point that I can now turn the castle by hand, albeit still a little tough.

Being unfamiliar with such things I have no idea how hard it should be to turn from there without compression, i.e without spark plug, but I have a feeling it should be very easy indeed, and it isn't yet. Over the weekend I'm going to tow it around the lawn in top gear, using my garden tractor, and listen for noises, and see if it frees up some more. If it does, I'll knock it down a gear or two, and try getting it spinning faster. As it was, when pushing it by hand, I could hear a ticking noise, as it turned over, but again I don't know what would be normal. I would have already towed it, but I need an extra person to either drive the garden tractor, or to steer the quad, one or the other, so it will have to wait until I can call on the assistance of a friend, hopefully over the weekend.

If it frees up a lot, such that the starter can then turn it over, I'll change the oil, and see it it will run. If it does run, and it sounds reasonably healthy, I'll let it run gently for around twenty minutes or so, and then do another oil change, filters and seals, etc. If it doesn't run, then I guess I will have to look further. No doubt the carb, and fuel system in general will have to be investigated. I suppose I should take a look there first anyway, because the chances of that not being fouled up after so long will be remote. That having been said, there was also a generator there as well, and that too had stood for 10 years, and I turned it on, gave it some choke, and it started second pull, on the original fuel, go figure!

So far, all the electricals seem to work, so that's at least something.

Sheared a couple of bolts for the body work frame, during disassembly, but I guess that's par for the course. I've read the tips section for removing the offending studs, so I'll be giving that a try if it runs. No point tarting it up, and fixing bits and bobs like that if I can't get it going.

I'll be sure to keep looking in to see if there are any tips, and will post the results of my efforts, successful or otherwise.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Sutty

 

[Mapyang]

Just so you know the engine has decompression release.
In regards to the fuel system it has a vacuum operated fuel pump so look into how the fuel system feeds.

 

[sutty]

Thanks, yes I saw the decompression release lever. Not a factor yet, as it is still a pig to turn over, even without plug, but yes, it could be helpful to know as and when I try a start with actual compression.

As for the fuel system, I will most certainly have to look into that. Right now I have no idea what you mean by a vacuum operated fuel pump, so I will have to find out, so thank you for the heads up on that score.

 

[KingQuadRunner]

Even with no spark plug you wont be able to turn it over by hand because of the force needed to open the valves. Hopefully it is alright, forcing a stuck engine is never a good idea. I'd say throw some fuel in the cylinder and give it a pull and see if it fires, then go to the fuel system. As you're towing it around your yard I'd recommend some trans fluid or motor oil down the spark plug hole to help things to keep lubricated, could also be a lip of rust in the cylinder where the piston was stuck that could wreck the rings.

 

[sutty]

Thanks for explaining that KQR, with regard to the valves. Makes a lot of sense as soon as you say it.

Anyway, I have a little progress to report. As I'd mentioned before, I was able to push it in gear now, well top gear at least. Had a friend come round and we towed it around the garden for 15 minutes or so. First it was in top gear, to keep the engine RPM down, but then I got him to knock it down one and then two gears, so we could get it really cranking round in there.

The result is that I can now easily turn it by hand, except every turn or so, it would get really tight, but still smooth, and this is now explained by your comment about the valves. Anyway, I could make it past the valves, by hand, just about, and then it would be very easy again, so something has freed up nicely. Be nice to find out what the starter will make of it.

Having got that far, I have now emptied the old oil. When the guy said he had filled it with light oil, on the note under the seat, he wasn't kidding. I can't believe how much came out, way way too much for a normal fill. I know what he was trying to do, but damn, I think he really had filled it up. I started to worry that my washing up bowl would overflow.

I've filled it with new oil now, up to the proper mark. Oil that will only run in it for a while, at which point I'll do another oil change, together with a filter change, and seals, if it actually does run.

In preparation for a start, I removed the starter motor, to see what the problem is there, and have discovered that the commutator is badly damaged. Brushes have been worn right down, and there has been extensive damage to the contactors of the armature. I cleaned it right up, so there is nothing proud now, but I can't do anything about the holes, the pitting, but after reassembly, with new brushes, it ran pretty good on the bench, and felt pretty torquey.

All official full price new replacements are way too expensive, well not for you guys in the US, but over here, it's silly. I could buy in the US, pay shipping, and tax, and it would still be less than they want here, but that would take too long, and I was avoiding spending too much until I know it runs.

Next I prepared for a run. I got everything back in place, used a car battery for the start, and put a little fuel in, but unfortunately, all the fuel just started leaking out of the off/res/on valve. I let it all run away, I hadn't put much in, waited a while for it to evaporate, and then took the valve off. With it in my hands, I could see that there were just two screws to open it up to see what is going on. As I removed them, a little wavy washer fell out in two pieces, obviously this presses the plates together, onto the rubber fuel way seal, and it was broken, so no seal. In the absence of the correct item, I found a perfect O ring, that when I tightened the two screws it worked a treat. The valve is a little tight to turn, but otherwise it operates as it should, and no leaks, so I continued.

A little fuel in the tank, set to reserve, and all ready to go, apart from no spark plug. I turned it over quite a lot to try and clear out the stuff I'd still been putting in the head down the plug hole, and then refitted the plug. I tried the starter, but it would stop every time it got to compression and bounce back on release of the button. I think all the rubbish fluids in the head wasn't helping, I'm sure there must have been some left. I held up the compression lever, not sure if you're supposed to, and let it turn over a while. Then I tried once more whilst my brother in law pulled on the hand starter too. Again, not sure if this is a good idea or not, but we were experimenting and learning, so we gave it a go and hey presto, what do you know it started. I was going to try a little fuel direct down the plug hole next, just as you mentioned. I'd had success with that in the past, but no need on this occasion.

All sorts of smoke and muck was coming out, but I let it run, and it cleared up quite a bit. I gave it a few minutes, but then noticed my oil level was low again. It had dropped I suppose from going into areas that it hadn't been able to get to without a proper run. I put a little extra in to get it to the middle of the sight glass again, and gave it another start. Started first time on the starter, and all seemed well, if a little smokey.

Since then I have been running it every day, and after the first hour of running everything seems to have cleaned up nicely. No lack of power, though of course I have been taking it easy. Did get up to about 20 though, at one point, but it was down hill. Very little smoke now, and the oil still looks golden coloured in the sight glass. Even so I will soon change that, but I thought I should try to do some running in on that oil, before putting in a second lot of new.

Now I know it runs, I am going to start spending some money on it, and have already got a few little bits and pieces on the way. New body work fasteners, air filter, new battery, new brake cable, paint, etc. One tyre goes down slowly, over a few days, so that's no good. Can now have that sorted, but wasn't going to do that until it ran.

I can't believe that it runs so well after all that time of sitting there seized. I know you guys will know all about similar tales, but the first time I found out that there might even be a chance was when I googled, 'my engine is seized, what do I do'. Many reports of being able to get them going again, which gave me confidence. Yes, I realise I could have made it worse, especially with my inexperience, but if that had happened, so what, I thought I was going to have to buy a replacement one anyway, which now I'm not.

Every day it starts first time every time, and I can easily start it off the hand start too, which I checked just to see. Not tried out all the special gear selections yet, and don't even know if I was in 4WD, because the plate and knobs are removed, but I'll find out soon enough. I know I could have just looked at the plate, but I haven't.

Since I got it running I've done some work on the brakes, and got those nice and free and adjusted correctly. That will be complete when my new hand brake cable arrives. That was locked almost solid. Can't be freed up, although I did manage to break it free, but the damage inside is too great to get free running. Anyway, new cable was cheap, £15, and will be here in a day or two.

Happy as a clam. Thanks for the tips guys.

Cheers

Sutty

 

[TCIII]

Good going....

 

[ajl719]

Just for future reference, you should never use the decompression lever in conjunction with the electric starter as doing so can cause possible engine damage. More so by holding it open while trying to start it. It's main purpose is to reduce the amount of pressure inside the cylinder thus making recoil starting the quad easier. Anyway, just a tip. Glad to see you got it all up and running. Hopefully everything from here on out is a little easier to solve.


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[sutty]

Thanks for the heads up on that. Nothing to solve really now. Just waiting on simple parts. No running today, did a lot more disassembly, to clean up and paint some parts.

 

[sutty]

Hi all

Things are progressing nicely, but I have a small stumbling block. I have removed all the bottom protection plates, for cleaning and painting. All done now. Sheared several bolts in the process, 5 in all, because they were rusted so bad, but every one that sheared drilled out successfully, and will still securely take a bolt and I have new bolts on the way. Anyway, the issue. When I removed the plates, all the rubber protection pads stayed in place bar one. I photographed them, and also carefully noted their positions, so that I could reposition them correctly.

On the one that got away, so to speak, I hunted the bottom for evidence of where it had been stuck in place, but could find nothing. I proceeded with the cleaning and painting anyway, I didn't want further delay, and now I definitely have no idea where this last one goes. It's the smallest of all the pieces, in that it is only about 1" square and about 3/16" thick.

Does anyone have a layout of these things that they could post, or simply tell me where this one square piece of rubber goes. A layout might be better, because who knows, maybe some others have already disappeared, prior to me even beginning the disassembly.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Sutty

 

[sutty]

Oh well, I couldn't work out where it went, so I did without it. It didn't seem to suffer as a result, or be loose, or vibrate anywhere, so I guess it's fine leaving it off.

Anyway, it's all done and ready for return to the fishing cabin.

Certainly not the best job, but it seems to run well, and I can select all gear, and operating modes, such as super low range, and differential lock, when in super low, etc. All the interlocks seems to function, in that only certain combinations of ratios are allowed. The brakes are all working perfectly now, including the parking brake, and it seems to run well, or okay at least.

It is a tad smokey when it has run a while, but nothing very bad, and it certainly seems to have enough power for all that I'll need, which in fairness is not much. I don't know how well my starter will last, but it seems more than good enough right now, and if it does bomb out on me, now that I'm happy with the running, I'll be happy to buy a new one now anyway.

All in all good enough I think.

Cheers

Sutty

 

[TCIII]

Good job

 

[ajl719]

What tire sizes are you running on that thing..? The rear tire looks huge compared to the front one.


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[sutty]

No idea. As far as I know they haven't ever been changed, but maybe in all the time that we sort of abandoned it, and it was being used/run by the farmer, maybe he changed them. I didn't include this detail in the original thread, but when I went to collect it from the farmyard, I couldn't even remember which was our quad, between a Honda and a Suzuki, so remembering what wheels were on it is a stretch. There's a lot more to that story, but I won't bore you with the detail, except to say, it had been left unseen and unused, by us, for 10 years and the guy who had been using it/ borrowing it, has passed away, as has my father who bought it.

That having been said, the front and back wheels do match in terms of colour, and valves and tread style. Plus the difficulty in removing the bolts, was the same on each, i.e. very hard, implying that they hadn't been undone in an awful long time.

Just had a look and they say on them AT22 x 8 - 10 and AT25 x 12 - 10

It seems to ride level and well enough, and since I don't want to spend money, if not absolutely necessary, they will have to stay.

 

[sutty]

Mmh, so does that mean I have the wrong ratio for four wheel drive? If so I'll have to run it in two wheel drive, until I can get two new front 25s.

 

[sutty]

No, those are the exact specifications according to the manual for my LT-F250F, so I'm good to go as is.

Goodo.

 

[ajl719]

I agree. The Quadrunners (LT-F250F), have different tire sizes then the King Quads do. I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure those are the correct sizes. Your picture just fooled my eyes I guess.


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[sutty]

Hi Guys

Please help me understand. If I look at my petcock valve, there is no vacuum connection, and no option for Pri. I only have, Res/On/Off. I take it this means it is an older gravity fed type system?

When I look up the replacement part, for my model, LT-F250FK1 – GREEN, which I got direct from the VIN on Suzuki's website, so it should be right, I can only find a vacuum version, with the pri option, which is listed as part number 16-2 COCK ASSY, FUEL MODEL K1/K2 44300-19B30, but this has the pri option, and a connection for an additional pipe, I assume for vacuum.

Is this a replacement/upgrade, and can I use it, somehow without vacuum, or will it not flow without vacuum?

If it won't work, how do I find the right part, because the parts listings, specifically for my model listed above, all seem to show the part number I just referenced.

I'm hoping that some of you guys with more experience of searching Suzuki parts can assist me.

 

[TCIII]

The petcock you have will flow without vacuum.....You should turn it to off when not in use. ( that's what the vacuum operated one does automatically)

I believe it is supposed to be a vacuum petcock but it will work without it if the vacuum line for it is blocked off

It still has a fuel pump which is vacuum operated....the carb is above the petcock and will not flow by itself unless the tank is pretty full

Suzuki ATV Parts 2000 LT-F250F OIL PUMP - FUEL PUMP Diagram