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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 450 KQ seems to have excessive play in all 4 of it's tie rod ends. I'm not the original owner but am assuming they are the original ends as the quad only had 1,240 miles on it when I got it and showed no evidence of ever being in mud.

I saw an old video advertising aftermarket front control arms that have a better caster angle than factory and said these 450 Kingquads had a twitchy oversteering issue and I can tell it seems to want to cut pretty quick with only a slight turn of the handlebars which I'm guessing is what people refer to as oversteer.

Anyone experience premature tie rod end wear on the 450 or 700 Kingquad?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I measured the toe alignment on this quad and it's pretty much zero.

I've got a 2005 Honda Foreman that I bought with 1,000 miles on it and with the original tires. The rear tires were still in good shape and fronts about worn out. I checked the toe and it was toed out quite a bit. I've since checked a couple other older Honda's and noticed they were all toed out a good bit.

Anyone know how the toe alignment should be setup on a quad? Typically a vehicle is toed in just a bit for stability. I'm guessing zero toe could cause more wear on the tie rod ends if the load is constantly switching back and forth rather than having the tires trying to pull inward or outward mostly while traveling straight. Any thoughts?
 

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My 450 KQ seems to have excessive play in all 4 of it's tie rod ends. I'm not the original owner but am assuming they are the original ends as the quad only had 1,240 miles on it when I got it and showed no evidence of ever being in mud.

I saw an old video advertising aftermarket front control arms that have a better caster angle than factory and said these 450 Kingquads had a twitchy oversteering issue and I can tell it seems to want to cut pretty quick with only a slight turn of the handlebars which I'm guessing is what people refer to as oversteer.

Anyone experience premature tie rod end wear on the 450 or 700 Kingquad?
All i can add to this is my experience with aftermarket joints. I used to have a Kawasaki Bayou that had a upper ball joint fail and i bought an All Balls brand to replace it because it was much cheaper. When i was installing it it did not appear to be nearly the quality of the joint i pressed out. It started getting loose again but i sold the quad before it got bad enough where it needed replaced again.

Last ATV i had a a Suzuki Vinson and it developed loose steering with over 3,000 miles. I thought i had tracked it down to a bad inner tie rod end so i bought a set of cheapy made in china Moose ends to replace it. After i finally got the thing removed i realized there was no play in the factory rod end. The slop i was feeling was the steering stem bushing. After i replaced the bushing it was fine.

My opinion is if you plan on keeping the ATV a long time i would use genuine Suzuki rod ends. If you dont ride much chinese budget ends will get you buy. But if you ride a lot you will be replacing them a lot in my opinion. And i would make sure that the play is coming from the TRE's and not the steering stem bushing. The steering stem bushing seems to be the part that wears the most.
 

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I measured the toe alignment on this quad and it's pretty much zero.

I've got a 2005 Honda Foreman that I bought with 1,000 miles on it and with the original tires. The rear tires were still in good shape and fronts about worn out. I checked the toe and it was toed out quite a bit. I've since checked a couple other older Honda's and noticed they were all toed out a good bit.

Anyone know how the toe alignment should be setup on a quad? Typically a vehicle is toed in just a bit for stability. I'm guessing zero toe could cause more wear on the tie rod ends if the load is constantly switching back and forth rather than having the tires trying to pull inward or outward mostly while traveling straight. Any thoughts?

From my experience on jeeps they come from the factory with zero toe. When you add big tires they will drive better slightly toed in and offroad shops that have experience with this will do it automatically. But if you go to a regular shop with no offroad experience they will set it at zero like the factory says.

ATV's might be a whole different deal but i cant imagine having the tires toed out would be any good for the steering or tires. I would try to find what it says in the factory manual and follow it. But if i couldent find the information i would probably set toe to zero and send it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
All i can add to this is my experience with aftermarket joints. I used to have a Kawasaki Bayou that had a upper ball joint fail and i bought an All Balls brand to replace it because it was much cheaper. When i was installing it it did not appear to be nearly the quality of the joint i pressed out. It started getting loose again but i sold the quad before it got bad enough where it needed replaced again.

Last ATV i had a a Suzuki Vinson and it developed loose steering with over 3,000 miles. I thought i had tracked it down to a bad inner tie rod end so i bought a set of cheapy made in china Moose ends to replace it. After i finally got the thing removed i realized there was no play in the factory rod end. The slop i was feeling was the steering stem bushing. After i replaced the bushing it was fine.

My opinion is if you plan on keeping the ATV a long time i would use genuine Suzuki rod ends. If you dont ride much chinese budget ends will get you buy. But if you ride a lot you will be replacing them a lot in my opinion. And i would make sure that the play is coming from the TRE's and not the steering stem bushing. The steering stem bushing seems to be the part that wears the most.
A bad steering bushing was my first thought when riding the quad for the first time but after jacking it up and inspecting I can't detect any play in either the lower or upper steering stem bushings.

All 4 of my tie rod ends have ≈ 2mm of lift when trying to pull the socket portion from the ball but it's hard to detect any side to side play with everything still assembled. I checked my friend's 2015 KQ 500, newer yet higher mileage, and none of his had any play when trying the same "lift" test. His does have larger tie rod ends being a power steering model. By checking part #'s I see the 2015 KQ 500 without power steering uses the same tie rod ends as my 2008 KQ 450.

When riding I don't feel any slop like loose steering but just a rattle feel through the handlebars. All the ball joints, control arm bushings and wheel bearings seem good.

I've replaced a lower steering bushing years ago on a Honda Rubicon but can't remember the symptoms that pointed me to it. I have had to take the top bushing / grommet apart on a couple different Honda's to clean and grease as they tend to increase the steering resistance with age, maybe factory grease dried up, I just don't recall exactly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I appreciate that information there PilotJet.

I understand that my specs may be different from those listed but at least it gives me more confirmation that some ATV manufactures do utilize a toe out condition vs the auto industry which usually runs a little toed in.

I'm not certain of the measurements I found on the older Honda's I've checked but thought they were toed out a bit too much after getting the 05 Foreman I still have and the front tires were nearly bald and rears still better than 50% tread. The prior owner rode it a bit much on pavement but it just surprised me to find the fronts shot with the rears still in decent shape and it not being a full time 4wd model.

I think I targeted around 3/16" wider in the front vs rear of the stock front tires on those Honda's I've messed with and don't recall ever noticing any handling difference, just wanted to lessen tire wear which it's seem to have done. My Foreman had 1,000 miles on it when I got it several years ago and I put some newer tires on it then along with reducing the amount of toe out and it now has 2,750 miles on it with the front and rear tires looking to have similar wear or maybe rears having a little more.

I'm thinking it was around 3/4" toe out difference I found on those Hondas which isn't much beyond the max spec shown for that 2019 KQ 750 but if ridden on paved surface much it seems to eat those front tires up way quicker than the rears.

The three quads I've reduced the amount of toe out found were:
05 Honda Foreman selectable 4x4
06 Honda Rancher full time 4x4
00 Honda Foreman full time 4x4

Looks like I'm going to do the opposite this time on this Kingquad and add some toe out as I measured no more than 1/16" difference on this 08 KQ 450.

Thanks again for this information PJ.
 
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